Interview with Prof. Robin Stuart-Kotze

About Behaviour Kinetics

Q: What is Behaviour Kinetics?

RSK: Behaviour Kinetics is a scientific approach to behaviour change. Its focus is on observable, measurable behaviour, not on things like personality, motivation, attitude, values, etc., and it's about movement and change - i.e. kinetics. It's scientific because it is able to perform the four essential functions of a science, to describe behaviour, explain behaviour, predict behaviour and control behaviour.

About Performance - The Book

Q: Where did the idea for the book come from?

RSK: In 1984 I watched a presentation on productivity in Japan in which the speaker pointed out that in 1982 in Toyota employees at all levels had made more than a million suggestions for improving performance - and that 90% of them had been accepted and implemented. I thought back to 1969 when I had done some work with General Motors, where there were no suggestions from employees. Over the intervening years I watched GM's market share decrease steadily and Toyota's increase. The message seemed pretty clear to me.

But simply importing ideas from Japan has never worked in North America or Western Europe. Quality circles are a great example; fewer than 1 in 100,000 lasted two years and very only a small percentage of the ideas they generated were adopted. I realised that what was needed was a scientific approach to behaviour change - Behaviour Kinetics.

Q: OK, I understand that, but how does it work?

RSK: If you focus on behaviour that is observable and measurable, rather than on personality, and you start by asking people to identify what they're doing currently to manage their jobs, you ask them what they need to do differently to improve their performance and you listen to what they say, accept their suggestions, and make the link between their behaviour and their performance, the probability of them changing their behaviour is high. Of course you need a bit of sophistication to ask the questions properly, and that implies using some behavioural technology.

Q: Who did you have in mind when you wrote this book?

RSK: Practicing managers. I'm told there are 20,000 business books written a year. I don't know if that's true, but there are a lot of them out there and almost all of them are based on opinion and specific examples from which one cannot generalise. Aubrey Daniels, whose book Bringing out the Best in People also takes a scientific approach to behaviour, says "The cycle of temporary answers continues because most approaches to management are never rooted in anything more substantial than limited observations, in limited settings, over limited periods". In other words they are based on opinion, not science

Q: If we read your book, what will we get better at?

RSK: Reading, alone, won't make anyone better at anything (other, perhaps, than at reading). Many years ago when my parents and I were embarking on a voyage to America, an old friend of my father's gave me this advice: "Don't travel like luggage". Reading this book simply for the understanding of its arguments is the equivalent of travelling like luggage. This book is about action, about applying the principles that are presented and about engaging the issue of behaviour change personally. If readers do that I can guarantee they will improve their performance and the performance of others in their organisations.

Q: What's going on in the business world today that your book has something important to say about?

RSK: Global competition creates huge pressure on organisations of all types to improve their performance but in the majority of cases the response is top-down pressure demanding more energy and activity. Two things are wrong with this approach. First, research shows quite clearly that the use of carrot and stick is increasingly less effective. Individuals resent coercion and either resist it or move away from it. Second, telling people what they must do has a dismal record of success. Top-down change absorbs massive amounts of energy and delivers very mixed results.

A second thing going on in organisations, both commercial and non-profit, is the significant rise in the level of employee stress. In the UK alone it's estimated that upwards of 50 million workdays are lost to stress. Stress, frustration, dissatisfaction, employee attrition, high levels of days lost due to illness, etc., are all issue of management. They are reflection of how people are treated. Take a look at the statistics for the top 100 companies people like to work for and compare them with the average for other companies across the country. The picture is very clear. It's all about the behaviour of managers and the reciprocal behaviour of their staff.

Q: If there is one critical message that you would like readers take from your work, what would it be?

RSK: Could I make it two messages? First, it's behaviour, not personality, that is the major determinant of performance: it's what you do that creates results, not who you are. And second, if you want people to improve their performance, asking them what they think they should do beats the hell out of trying to tell them.

Q: What in the world of management has done most to create the need for this book?

RSK: The principal driving factor is ever-intensifying competition in business and the need for continuous performance improvement. Organisations that fail to improve how they do things - productivity, sales, cost control, knowledge management, etc. - fail or get swallowed up. This isn't something that applies only to commercial enterprises; performance of government agencies is increasingly worsening.

Q: Do these ideas work?

RSK: Yes. The proof the pudding is Toyota which is the most profitable car company in the world, the benchmark for quality at all levels for other car companies, and now bigger that the so-called Big Three of America, General Motors, Ford and Chrysler. They have been an AT company from the beginning and then answers they have got to the question " How can we do things better here?" have made them the outstanding company they are.

About RSK

Q: As a business thinker yourself, which thought leaders have most inspired you?

RSK: The greatest thinker and writer on management in the last century was Peter Drucker. He is my hero. His books merit continuous re-reading. In the late 1960s and early 1970s when I first began to get interested in management, change and performance, the two writers who influenced me most were probably Warren Bennis and Chris Argyris. The individual who got me interested in all this in the first place, and who was my great friend and mentor for 30 years was W. J. (Bill) Reddin. In terms of managers I've been fortunate to know some outstanding people like Sir John Egan, the man who transformed Jaguar and BAA. He's an "Ask Them" leader. His great line when someone came in to see him with a suggestion was "The answer is yes, now what's the question?" That puts responsibility where it should be and it gets people to give their best. I also worked with Bill Ryan, CEO of Rothmans, who trebled the company's value over a four year period, and Ian Brindle, Senior Partner of Price Waterhouse, who brought PW Europe together and helped set the stage for the formation of PWC. Their personalities could not have been more different, but all of them knew how to deliver performance.

Q: What do you consider yourself to be?

RSK: A friend of mine, on retiring as Dean of a business school in Canada, referred to himself as a Has-Dean. In my case, I've been an army officer, a salesman, an investment banker, an academic, and a restaurateur. That's five has-beens. On the still-is side, I think I'm a thinker (but then I would think that wouldn't I?). I'm a developer and producer of behavioural diagnostics and I'm (hopefully) still a writer.

Q: If we want to explore or implement these ideas further, what should we do?

RSK: The Nike slogan is "Just do it". If you want to take me to task about anything or discuss any of the ideas in greater depth, email me at editor@behaviourkinetics.com

Q: Finally, any questions that you'd like to ask your readers?

RSK: I'd like to ask them the question Lou Gerstner asked the people in IBM: "Don't you think we should try something different?"